Q1 = I have read that the 7 year reporting period can't be renewed on closed end / open end accounts.
A judgment is a closed end account and cannot continue to be reported after 7 years.
However, does the 7 year rule apply to open end accounts? Can an open end account, e.g. an unpaid collection account, be reported - even though a payment is made after the 7 years? Does 7 years of reporting stop the re-aging clock?
Q2 = I have read that "if a judgment is converted to a lien, then a lien can remain on the credit report forever as long as it remains unpaid. Once it is paid, they still nail the consumer with an additional 7 years from the satisfied / released date."
My understanding is that a judgment is a lien? How can a lien be converted to a lien?
Judgments can be reported after 7 years. They are usually on for 5-20 years and can be renewed after the period ends so they can stay on your credit report for ever basically. Whether a lien is entered does not matter.
it goes by state law
http://www.fair-debt-collection.com/SOL-by-State.html
you can check on this website
Some states allow for 10 years, and after 10 years the judgment can be renewed.
So basically out of the first 10 years - the judgment shows on the credit report 7 out of the 10 years.
When it gets renewed it can report an additional 7 years out of the next 10 years.
You are correct about the Lien, Liens are different in that they can be placed against property, meaning if you have a house and a lien is attached, you can't sell the house until the lien is paid off.
Regular collections and charge offs can only report 7 years, no matter if you pay later. Now if you pay later it can renew the statute of limitations and if that happens then a judgment can be obtained. Thus adding another 7 to 14 years on the reporting.
Also the only exception to this rule is Student Loans, according to the FCRA a judgment can keep reporting like a lien as long as it is unpaid. But when I checked the higher education act it did not support this, so if you have a student loan, only time can tell what the credit reporting agency does.
Also there is a rule, that a full consumer credit report can be accessed by businesses when a consumer:
* Applied for a job were the pay is expected to exceed $75,000
* Applied for insurance that was expected to exceed $150,000
* Applied for a mortgage loan that was expected to exceed $150,000
These things will allow the company to see ALL of your past credit history - the credit reporting agency does not delete this just because the 7 years are up, they keep the data suppressed until a company for these reasons requests a full report.
judgments
Hi ar,
Judgments can stay on your report for more than 7 years depending on the renewal of the judgment. A judgment can be renewed after the 7 years. If the creditor or collection agency realizes that they had not been able to collect on the judgment, they may renew the judgment. It does not depend on the lien. However, you can check your state laws on judgment to get more details.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Aaron
Nightstar, there is no 7 year limit on judgments. It can stay on your report for as long as the originating state allows.
In practice this rarely happens because the plaintiff has to pay for eoscar and keep renewing the judgment but it very bad for your credit. they can delete and then popup.
I don't know about the individual states, but I do know that the FCRA stipulates that a judgment only reports for 7 years. It can be renewed and another 7 years can report.
I do believe that the Credit Reporting Agencies follow the FCRA on this matter. Even if the state wanted to report longer.
I know the liens can report forever, but sometimes I have seen people show up with releases in certain states - where they had a SOL on them.
FCRA states that judgments stay on your reports as long as the statute of limitations in the governing states allows.
states can even make stuff get deleted earlier. Did you know that paid charge offs can only be reported for 5 years in NY?
please feel free to show otherwise.
Liens are attached to property. the deed cannot be transferred without payment of the lien. They can be released by the court. even if you pay the lien, you still have to get the lien released.
@cinnamngrl
Where in FCRA doe it state that judgments can be reported as long as the state SOL allows?
I've read here that liens can be reported forever. Where does FCRA allow that?
Thanks
credit
WOW!!! A Judgement can stay on your CR,....as long as you own the property it's 'leined' to? Is that my 'understanding'? If I'm MIS-understanding, please let me know.
confusing language
This is a good site, however I am already seeing that a significant issue is the loose language that is used by many. It is leading to confusion and to added emails to undo the confusion. We must be careful to give complete answers and to use technical terms when referring to an item, instead of saying "it" or "them" etc.
The differences between credit reporting time limits and state statutes of limitation to bring suit is confusing to many, especially as they are being used interchangeably by those giving answers.
@cinnamngrl
Where does it say in FCRA that credit reporting time limits for judgments are set by the statute of limitations in the governing states? States do set reporting limits, but I have never seen where the reporting limit is tied to the statute of limitation to bring suit.
@sdchargers_63
If cinnamngrl is correct that the FCRA allows for reporting judgments up to the SOL, then, while the judgment is in effect for 20 years (NY) it will be continuously reported, but since the judgment can not be enforced after 20 years, it can then be removed.
My understanding is that (NY) a 10 year, 1 time renewable judgment, is reported on the credit report for the first 7 of the 10 years, and if the judgment is renewed, it is again reported for 7 of the next 10 years. My understanding is that after 7 years, the judgment must be removed. That means that FCRA allows reporting the judgment 14 of the 20 years, not the entire 20 years as a continuum.
ar8294
Thanks you said that better than I was doing.
I use to work for a credit bureau and the owner happen to also own a collection agency. So I do have it on good word that the reporting on the judgment can only be 7 out of 10 years - in the states that allow statute of limitations for 10 years, or 14 out of 20 years if a state has a statute of limitations that long.
Only when a judgment is converted to a lien against property does the statute of limitation change to unlimited reporting on unpaid debt.
The Credit Reporting Agencies are applying the national ordinate by the FCRA and what the FTC interprets it to mean in the staff opinion letters they added.
http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcrajump.shtm
I have seen some inconsistencies by what the FCRA says and what the Credit Reporting Agencies do, and it was not on this particular area. The difference I noticed was:
1. FCRA says all inquiries except employment can only be reported 1 year. Employment can be reported 2 years.
* But you know what the credit reporting agencies show all inquiries for 2 years, even though they only affect score 1 year.
2. FCRA says all student loan collections can be repopulated by each collection agency that handles the debt - forth going reporting indefinitely if it continues to be unpaid - (like a tax lien) but no where in the Higher Education Act can I find that the government will actually do that. They say items will come off after 7 years.
3. The only thing I have seen the credit reporting agencies do different per each state and that is:
* Adjust cost of consumer credit reports depending on consumers state.
* Adjust cost of freezes (concerning ID Theft) depending on consumers state.
* I do know if a state has a reporting requirement that is less then the Credit Reporting Agencies usual 7 year - like Massachusetts they will remove items early. In Mass. the expiration is 6 years. There may be more states other then this that I don't know about.
I think if the reporting is extended longer then the Credit Reporting Agencies policy, they just discount it and go with their (the credit reporting agencies) default policy.
This is an interesting subject, I use to have a guy at CSC Credit that I talked long hours with over different reporting rules in the FCRA and how the credit reporting agencies interpreted these rules.
@Nightstar
Good post!
I have never heard that a judgment lien needed to be converted into a lien against property. This is a brand new concept to me.
In NY, at least, my understanding has always been that, by definition, i.e. as part of what makes a judgment what it is, the judgment automatically attaches itself to real property and is allowed to levy banks and other liquid assets, like stock. The sheriff or courts are involved in applying the satisfaction, but the judgment is the enabling vehicle.
Huh, I didn't know that, I am from Illinois this state does allow garnishment and liens, but a creditor or collection agency has to file with the court to take further action to have these things done.
I have seen a good many judgments added to consumer reports with no further action to enforce collection on the judgment. So after the 10 - 20 years it just expires out of the statute of limitations.
A lot of landlords do this, they know if ever the consumer tries to obtain a mortgage loan - then the loan company will do a public record search and inform the consumer they are not allowed to get the loan until the consumer settles the judgment - for fear that the judgment can be attached to the house they buy.
So the landlord knows it is just a matter of time until the consumer has to come crawling back to make amends. Small mom & pop landlords don't have the money to pursue further action then just getting the judgment added.
When I process RMCR reports and found a judgment I had to call the court house to see if the judgment had been satisfied or released, and sometimes I actually had to go to the court house to read the file for myself. I would see all of the official entries of what had been done for each judgment, and there were many just entered with no further action to obtain a lien or garnishment.
It really depends on the plaintiff - the amount owed, and how aggressive they were to collect the debt.
@NightStar
Our system in NY is the same as you describe in IL. The judgment automatically attaches to real property.
Where does a judgment need to be converted to a lien that attaches to property?
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Poverty caused this innocent girl to drop out of faculty and sell her most precious gift to a total. The present-day. hazards, allows and SARS, some of the. Is still you'll find the most
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Because of poverty many of the local girls are forced to drop out of school and begin their work in this nightlife scene. The law states that no girls under the age or 18 are allowed to work in these facilities but the truth of the matter is that many of the girls are as young as 16. Either they themselves fake their birth records or the places where they are working do it for them.
listed here is a true story told to myself by a Manila bar girl;
hello there, I'm 18 and ones Philippines and this is my story. Due to poverty I had to drop out of school when I'm only 17 and I decided to go to join one of my girlfriend's and work with a girly bars in Manila. This was the only way I could make some money so that I could return to the province and continue with my studies again.
The whole bar scene and meeting all the other girls [Of which so many of them were in the same situation as I was] And foreigner men was a shock to my system. the places I'm from, It's just like a small town with not more and more and everyone seems to know each other there. in addition. Dancing on stage for 8 hours every evening was very tiring also.
There's two different multiple girls dancing the tall girls and the shorter girls. I was in the short girls group. Each group danced for 30 a matter of minutes, Whereby then make use of them go rest so the other group of girls could dance for 30 minutes. This just keeps up all evening. without layovers until we go home (to our boarding house) in the 4am.
We're paid 250 pesos per night for ballroom. But of these 250 pesos. We have to deduct 150 pesos for our costume rental and for the expertise of the make up girls. I guess they are better at that then even real girls are].
and thus, this means that us dancing girls are earning only about 100 pesos per night if we didn't get any drinks from customers. If we got drinks then we earn an extra 100 pesos per drink so that's why we love to get plenty of drinks.
Mamasan was good to me. Even though I'm only 17 yrs. old that time, She managed to make a fake certificate of a birth for me so I was able to work there cause the actual legal minimum age is supposed to be 18. A couple of the girls working there even admitted to me that they were only 16 years of age! I was amazed at this and how young a lot of were.
Mamasan also taught me umpteen things. Like how to treat and make while conversing to the male customers, How to drink alcohol obtaining drunk, And so much more 'tricks of the trade'. She also knew that I was a virgin so this made her even more nice and safety of me. She told me that normal 'bar fine' for non virgin girls was only 900 pesos. rather. cousin. My very first bar fine would be 2,000 pesos in order to bar, And the customer had to pay me 40,000 pesos!
without a doubt, I really wish that I did not have to sell my 'virginity' for any amount but at this time I didn't have any choice really. very. I considered to myself, especially. That's a lot of cash! If I can do may get my 40,000 pesos then I won't even have to work here anymore cause that's already enough for me to go back to the province to continue my studies. I told mamasan that I do concur with that so she was happy also to hear this news.
Two months went by but had been no 'takers' of my virginity yet. Many men were going to make love to me [and why not? I'm discussed quite petite and beautiful also!] But right after they learned I'm still a virgin and the price will be 42,000 pesos. They lost interest fees quickly cause, 'that's highly costly!', Was their usual advice to me.
you should, One day this Japanese business person, Yuji, found our bar. He visited me, Smiled, And asked me for a drink. He was nice and we got along well. When Yuji heard of me being a virgin and also about the 42,000 peso price it decided not to phase him at all. He in a timely manner agreed! i believed i was happy. however. Nervous also cause I'm about to lose my virginity to a ready-made stranger whom I'd just only met.
Yuji paid mamasan the 42,000 pesos. he then brought me to his nearby hotel. He was gentle with me. Even kissing my virgin pussy first 'to get more wet and horny', Is what he told me. That was fantastic cause no one has ever kissed me in that area before. I dearly loved that. followed by, Yuji got moreover me and slowly forced his in. slowly and gradually it was going russian date in and penetrating me. It kinda hurt for the first several swings. But then the pleasure was every bit as good as the pain so I was also enjoying it. indeed. When he came just in me. i also came again.
surprise. Oh my god I saw so much blood on his bed sheet after and I was apologizing to him but he said, "it's actually ok. This is normal for a virgin doing it for the first time, Later that night-time we made love again. And then once again when we woke up in the am. most likely, next, I'm merely a virgin anymore.
That evening I decided on the bar and mamasan gave me my money. I was so happy then. I didn't even work that night. Although mamasan attemptedto convince me to stay. I was excited and returned to our dorm and packed my things. the following day I took the Rabbit bus back to the province and my whole family was so happy to see me again.
however, The money didn't last long cause I gave most of it to my parents so they would fix up our dilapidated house. I was soon broke again and didn't even have enough to go on my studies for even a single semester. child a whole year.
to bake my story end now. And it's no happy ending either. I'm back working in the bar and I hope I can earn enough money one of the ways days so I can return back to the province and continue with my studies cause the bar life is not a good life for any girl. appreciation for being so nice and listing to my story. [betty, 18, Philippines].
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