Proper proof of debt

Submitted by Fasfeed on Wed, 02/27/2008 - 17:12

What would be considered as binding validation of debt. I recently had a collection company send me out a copy of validation of debt. There only appears to be computer generated copy of summary of transactions. Have they supplied enough information to verify the debt. Can i ask for more validation and what would i ask for. This also came after I recieved a settlement offer from the collection agency. I sent them a pay for deletion letter agreeing to settlement amount. They responded with the DV ,without agreeing nor disagreeing to terms of pfd. Should I resend pfd letter stating second attempt. The settlement offer has also ran outside its course of the 30 day window offered. Waiting on response to DV,before I do anything else.

Sounds like AFNI. Who is the CA? They didn't properly validate. Their computer generated printouts of numbers and such are not proof. Send something like the following with the proper information, certified mail with return receipt:

If you still don't get it, you can assume they can't properly validate and go from there.

Thu, 02/28/2008 - 15:34 Permalink

THANKS for your post Diem !! The collection company name is RGS financial .Their out of Texas . I wiil be sending a copy of this letter out asap . Will be updating you on the outcome.

Fri, 02/29/2008 - 01:26 Permalink

Maybe, can help me with THIS issue. I have Cash Call, on my CR. However......Cash Call no longer 'owns' this account. The CA, who NOW owns it, is ALSO on my CR. How can I 'remove' Cash Call? Can I use a similiar letter, like the one above?

Fri, 02/29/2008 - 06:41 Permalink

Wendy you need to send a dispute letter in this case. What is the status of the account with Cash Call now?

Fri, 02/29/2008 - 10:06 Permalink

IMO, even if CashCall no longer owns the debt, they can still report accurate information that happened while they did own it. Go through the dispute process anyway, you might get lucky.

Fri, 02/29/2008 - 11:33 Permalink

Laura........I don't deal with Cash Call anymore. A CA has 'owned' my account, for a while now. ..about 5 months, or so. However.....BOTH the CA and Cash Call, are on my CR.

Fri, 02/29/2008 - 18:10 Permalink

How can they report 2 od the same debts even if they are different companies? That doesn't seem fair because if they continue to keep selling the debt and each company keeps reporting it doesn't that look awful on a credit report? Also if the debt clears its self off a person credit record in 7 years does the company who bought it say a few years later have to quit reporting it also. You would think once it went off after 7 years (I think I read this is how long credit card debt continues on a credit report) the company who bought it couldn't report it either.

Sat, 03/01/2008 - 22:25 Permalink

The account falls off credit report 7 years after date of charge off; if a collection agency continues to report the entry after that date, it is in violation of the law, probably intentionally.

Sat, 03/01/2008 - 23:22 Permalink

Only the original creditor and the collection agency collecting may do this. Two, three, four... collection agencies may not report the same debt at the same time.

Sat, 03/01/2008 - 23:24 Permalink

That sounds fair enough. If they do keep reporting it can you do something to make them stop? Also if I may ask another question. I have an old doc bill on my report. It is set to expire in about a year. I never relized it was there until I recently pulled my own report. I had full medical at the time and can't figure out how it never got paid but is such a meaningless amount that I would just pay it to not have it there. Now the question part. If I do this will the other creditor I owe from the year 2000 start harassing me even more? I already deal with them and one on my husbands that wasn't actually his but his fathers (long story). Don't want to deal with anymore. If I had to I would just rather let the debt run out.

Sun, 03/02/2008 - 01:51 Permalink

Debt validation letter + dispute with credit reporting agency should do the trick. If a CA continues to report in spite of not collecting the debt, and in the face of DV letter + a dispute with CRA, intent to sue letter should be the next step.

If you're not going to buy a house or car in the near future, you could either let if fall off, or try the dispute process.

Sun, 03/02/2008 - 02:11 Permalink

Not planning on doing either. Just went through the whole house thing and not moving again and already have a loan for my truck, that I just got a few months ago. Just wanted to clear it up since it was such a meaningless amount. Thanks for the advise.

Sun, 03/02/2008 - 02:39 Permalink

I have read on the debt forum that cashcall is very difficult to work with, are they, it seems true.

Sun, 03/02/2008 - 03:04 Permalink

I dealt with cash call long ago. I spoke with them once and after how rude they were I went out and bought a caller id (when they first come out). Figure it was better to pay a monthly fee for that product than to deal with such wolves who want to hear nothing. They wanted all or nothing.

Sun, 03/02/2008 - 14:17 Permalink

Cash Call is difficult to deal with. The CA AND Cash Call are BOTH on my CR. However........the SOL, on this account, won't be up for a while. The loan, with Cash Call, was taking out almost 2 years ago, now. The CA took over this account, about 5 month ago.'s a question for ya...........does the SOL start when the account was 'owned' by Cash Call.OR...when the CA took it over?

Sun, 03/02/2008 - 16:12 Permalink

Credit report: 7 years from date of charge off

Lawsuit: xxx years from last payment (check your state law)...a CA buying and/or selling your account does not change this

Sun, 03/02/2008 - 21:29 Permalink

It does go by last payment. If you pull your credit report you should be able to find that info there. I doubt it is past statutes if it is only around two years old. I think there is a place on this site that lists SOL by state. If not type it in your search slot on google or whatever you use and you will find a page I'm sure will list it. I think you will find what you are looking for. Good Luck.

Mon, 03/03/2008 - 00:34 Permalink

Date of last payment vs date of last activity . Shouldnt these be considerer the same . I have and account that shows date of last activity dated 11-2005 ,but date of last payment dated 7-2006. Why are these dates different if I made last payment on the account 11-2005. Would not the last payment be considerer last activity. Ive also seen where its being said that accounts drop off from date the account was charged off , but on report [ EQUIFAX] in particular it doesnt really state the charge off date . Account shows; ADDITIONAL INFOMATION - CHARGED OFF ACCOUNT : ACCOUNT CLOSED BY CREDIT GRANTOR .How can you determine charge off date .

Wed, 03/05/2008 - 13:40 Permalink

I'm not sure why it would list your last payment 7-2006 if in fact you made in 11-2005. Those two dates don't have the same meaning. The most important should be date of last payment because that is the date they go by when determining the SOL.
The charge off date should be listed under Account history. They can list several dates so look for the oldest date. That I would imagine would be the charge off date of the original creditor. It should also list 30 days as of (date)...60 days as of (date). and so on up to 180 days.
I am no expert at reading these reports..maybe you can go and post a seperate question on this and see who knows what. Thats what I do when I don't quite understand something. Someone usually replies pretty quickly.

Wed, 03/05/2008 - 19:49 Permalink

Shouldnt these be considerer the same .

If DOLA and payment date were the same, then paying off collection accounts would cause them to stay for seven years following date of payment.

Wed, 03/05/2008 - 22:12 Permalink

I think the OP said they were different dates. In that case which one would they go by. Mine are listed as same date. By the way your snowman gives me hope this stuoid weather will be over soon.

Thu, 03/06/2008 - 11:25 Permalink

The date of last activity will be given prominence

Wed, 03/12/2008 - 09:34 Permalink

Thanks alot Laura. Hope this helped the original poster.

Wed, 03/12/2008 - 19:13 Permalink

Fireyone, even it is given as the same date, which is probably how that account worked, th DOLA as mentioned by Morningstar is the one to be considered.

Thu, 03/13/2008 - 07:19 Permalink

What happens if the credit agency lists the debt as a dollar more than the original creditior? This is the only difference in the two on my report. The CA does list cap one as original creditor. seems they are both reporting the smae debt with just the dollar difference.

Fri, 03/14/2008 - 23:33 Permalink

I just pulled my credit report, it doesn't give the same information on the debts, does one give more information than the other, what do you guys prefer, experian, transunion or equifax. anyone have a preference and why?????????

I just pulled experian. it is set up goofy. hard to read for the dates, reports some on some and nothing on others.

Tue, 03/25/2008 - 01:55 Permalink

I can barely read one report without getting disgusted and worrying myself senseless. I don't want to see the others. I don't even know which place I got the first and only one I ever pulled up.

Tue, 03/25/2008 - 23:37 Permalink

The easiest to read to me is equifax.They offer extra information on how to read your report such as account column descriptions, account history status code descriptions,prefix descriptions , etc. I get better understanding with their format.

Wed, 03/26/2008 - 12:56 Permalink

Pull from all 3 bureaus and compare each format. One of the others may work better for you . I think we get at least 2 free pulls a year from each. Will find out for sure and repost.

Mon, 03/31/2008 - 03:51 Permalink

Have to disagree there. I am almost certain it is 1 free pull from each yearly. That still works!?!?!?

Sun, 04/27/2008 - 02:55 Permalink

You are right fireyone, one free pull from each of the three, are you going to the right site, there are alot of look alikes out there.

Sun, 04/27/2008 - 13:01 Permalink
debra (not verified)

Is their anywhere on the internet you can download a formal letter requesting validation of debt or do yu just have to write your own??

Tue, 05/06/2008 - 18:25 Permalink

I am also sure of the fact that we can get only one free report from each of the three credit reporting agencies each year. More than one credit report a year attracts additional cost. Moreover, there are some companies that offer free credit reports to their customers. But I think we can order one credit report from one CRA every four months and keep track of our credit history,

Thu, 06/26/2008 - 05:53 Permalink

Hi debra

You can find a sample debt validation letter in the creditmagic forum itself. Here is the link
You can use this letter in its original format putting in the name and address of the CA and your name and signature. Alternatively, you can also rephrase this letter and sent it to the collection agencies.

Thu, 06/26/2008 - 06:03 Permalink
Tim Rob (not verified)

Why do all you people spend so much time trying to rip the people off you granted you credit. If you spent a fraction of the time being responsible you would not have these problems. Good Luck, dead beats.

Sat, 01/10/2009 - 16:17 Permalink

Tim Rob....
If the collections companies were 1/100th as honest as the majority of the people in this forum, this forum wouldn't exist.

Speaking as someone who REGULARLY deals with unscrupulous debt collectors who HABITUALLY misrepresent debts that, in many cases are not even owed, I can assure you that any progress made by the members of this forum to reclaim their good names is dwarfed by the illegal damage done to them by collection agencies...

These folks are simply intelligent enough to not be bullied by crooks in the collection industry.

At least THEY try to figure out if something is legit... Most of the idiot collectors I've come across simply take on faith that the person from whom they are collecting is in fact indebted.

Sat, 01/10/2009 - 20:28 Permalink
dee (not verified)

What is a AFNI? and is CRA credit report agency?

Tue, 03/03/2009 - 15:12 Permalink

Yes, CRA is credit reporting agency. These credit reporting agencies are also known as credit bureaus.
AFNI Inc is a collection agency and is BBB accredited. You may call them up at 1.800.371.3645 for any collection inquiries.

Wed, 03/04/2009 - 10:26 Permalink
Anonymous (not verified)

Your Name
123 Your Street Address
Your City, ST 01234

ABC Collections
123 NotOnYourLife Ave
Chicago, IL



To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is being sent to you in response to a notice sent to me on September 30, 2002). Be advised that this is not a refusal to pay, but a notice sent pursuant to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, 15 USC 1692g Sec. 809 (b) that your claim is disputed and validation is requested.

This is NOT a request for “verification” or proof of my mailing address, but a request for VALIDATION made pursuant to the above named Title and Section. I respectfully request that your offices provide me with competent evidence that I have any legal obligation to pay you.

Please provide me with the following:

What the money you say I owe is for;
Explain and show me how you calculated what you say I owe;
Provide me with copies of any papers that show I agreed to pay what you say I owe;
Provide a verification or copy of any judgment if applicable;
Identify the original creditor;
Prove the Statute of Limitations has not expired on this account
Show me that you are licensed to collect in my state
Provide me with your license numbers and Registered Agent

At this time I will also inform you that if your offices have reported invalidated information to any of the 3 major Credit Bureau’s (Equifax, Experian or TransUnion) this action might constitute fraud under both Federal and State Laws. Due to this fact, if any negative mark is found on any of my credit reports by your company or the company that you represent I will not hesitate in bringing legal action against you for the following:

Violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act
Violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act
Defamation of Character
If your offices are able to provide the proper documentation as requested in the following Declaration, I will require at least 30 days to investigate this information and during such time all collection activity must cease and desist.

Also during this validation period, if any action is taken which could be considered detrimental to any of my credit reports, I will consult with my legal counsel for suit. This includes any listing any information to a credit reporting repository that could be inaccurate or invalidated or verifying an account as accurate when in fact there is no provided proof that it is.

If your offices fail to respond to this validation request within 30 days from the date of your receipt, all references to this account must be deleted and completely removed from my credit file and a copy of such deletion request shall be sent to me immediately.

I would also like to request, in writing, that no telephone contact be made by your offices to my home or to my place of employment. If your offices attempt telephone communication with me, including but not limited to computer generated calls and calls or correspondence sent to or with any third parties, it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit. All future communications with me MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter by USPS.

It would be advisable that you assure that your records are in order before I am forced to take legal action. This is an attempt to correct your records, any information obtained shall be used for that purpose.

Best Regards,

Your Signature
Your Name

Thu, 03/19/2009 - 04:36 Permalink

GUEST>>>> it says in your post that 'no phone calls will be made to you'. What happens if a CA DOES call you? Is that harrassment? That's a pretty 'self-explainatory' letter.

Thu, 03/19/2009 - 08:59 Permalink
Anonymous (not verified)

legally they are only aloud to contact you 1 time after that and that is to say if they are going to pursue legal action other than that it IS Harrassment.

Fri, 03/20/2009 - 21:57 Permalink
TIFFANY (not verified)


Wed, 04/29/2009 - 22:02 Permalink

Hi Tiffany
Both the credit bureaus and the information providers (creditor) are responsible to correct any wrong information in your report as per the provisions of the Fair Credit Reporting Act. You need to inform the credit bureaus in writing that the information is inaccurate and provide documents (if you have any) in support of your claim. The bureaus should investigate it within 30 days and provide you with the details along with a free copy of your report (if any changes have been made) after the investigation is complete. If you find that the bureaus have not removed the incorrect information from your report, you can file a complaint with the FTC by calling them at their toll free number 1-877-382-4357.

Thu, 04/30/2009 - 07:22 Permalink
efnavar (not verified)

I have a medical collection account. They have failed to provide me with debt validation. Can I dispute this with the credit bureau.

Wed, 08/26/2009 - 21:29 Permalink
shely (not verified)

After 3 messages left on my cell and house phone I finally answered the call from a law office stating they were collecting on a Capitol One C.C. They would not except a payment and demanded $1,500. on a $2,000. debt. I called Capitol One to make a payment arrangement on my account and they informed me a month ago that it was turned over to a 3rd party. I tried to make a monthly payment arrangement with this law firm collector and he wanted my checking account info. which I refused to give. He was very rude and told me to get the money or something from a reletive and pay them off by the end of the month. I tried to explain I did not have it and I would mail him a payment. He refused and was rude so I hung up. Now I am very worried. Did I give him to much info. Can he sue me or attach my wages.

Tue, 04/06/2010 - 02:32 Permalink

Hi Efnavar:

You can use the proof of your debt validation letter to dispute this with the credit bureaus. You will get a sample dispute letter at .


It is not advisable to simply settle payments on the phone. You can try sending a debt settlement letter to the collection agency. Send this letter through certified mail, requesting a return receipt. You can also request the original creditor to pull back the account from the collection agency.



Tue, 04/06/2010 - 05:05 Permalink