Submitted by coffeebean on Sat, 01/12/2008 - 02:50

1). There is not much history on same-sex marriages in our country. However, there is a long history dated all the way back to ancient times. There is a taboo in our society on same-sex relationships not to mention marriage but across other was known for allowing sexual relations between men and young boys. When the man would reach old age he would then help his young partner find a wife to reproduce with so they could keep evolving. It wasn’t called homosexuality yet because that term wasn’t coined until the 19th century for medicinal purposes. Some European and Chinese societies followed and sometimes celebrated these relationships. It wasn’t uncommon to see same-sex relationships However religion had an influence on this topic by calling same-sex relations a sin and banning any same-sex sexual relationships or marriage (Benoit, 2005). Having sex with someone from your own gender was seen as deviant and a threat to the family unit most likely because it made the couple unable to reproduce.
The first U.S. attempt to join individuals of the same-sex by marriage was done by Rev. Troy Perry. This marriage was not recognized however, this attempt sparked lawsuits and social conflict. The lawsuits eventually end with a loss for the homosexual couple but the HRC also known as the Human Rights Campaigned was formed (The Human Rights Campaign [HRC], 2007). HRC is the larges equal rights organization that exists in our country and the most effective so far. If wasn’t founded until 1980 so it is no that old but has made a lot of improvements towards equal rights for LGBT or lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transsexual. They supported liberal views and encouraged voting and involvement in politics. Same-sex marriages and campaigns towards equal rights took a hard hit in the 1980’s with the onset epidemic of AIDS among the gay community. This was a set back because people didn’t know the history of AIDS and assumed it was just because someone was gay. Some used the idea that God was punishing the gay community, although lesbian were mostly excluded from the epidemic, and two people of the same sex should have the rights of a straight couple.
Moving into the 90’s things did change as new elections took place and more people were coming out about their sexuality. There were politicians, musicians, actors, doctors, and teens admitting they were gay. There were also heterosexual celebrities and infamous individuals coming up to support LGBT rights and I think that showed a sense of comfort with having various sexualities in our society. In 1994, a term was coined for ceremonies among same-sex partners called “commitment ceremonies”. In 2000, LGBT leaders spoke in front of the democratic political convention on the issues. In the mean while there were “hate crimes” against many minority groups including, gays, race minorities, and disabled bodies. This led to a new policy enacted in 2007 which is called Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act. This act made convictions and sentencing longer for any crimes against minorities. Although this law was an improvement in our justice system, same-sex marriages are still banned in our country. Currently New Jersey and Massachusetts are the only states recognizing civil unions but their laws are still under debate and appeal (The Human Rights Campaign [HRC], 2007).
2). The major contributors besides the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transsexual community’s are the HRC. The HRC members have paved the way for social change to happen. Some important members of the HRC are Steve Endean, the founder, Vic Basile, first executive director, Joe Solmonese, as the president and notorious for making the most progress in the organization, President Clinton, for starting the National “coming out day”, and Mathew Shepherd death is unintentionally known for the enactment of the protection from “hate crimes” law. If it weren’t for a lot of people supporting same-sex marriages and speaking out against the ban then the issue wouldn’t have the attention that it does. Some other major financial supporters are companies like IBM, Volvo, WaMu, Chase, and Nike (The Human Rights Campaign [HRC], 2007).
3). The HRC represents the goals of policy reform for lesbians, gays, bisexuals, and transsexuals. One goal is to equal constitutional rights for same-sex couples that means entitling them to the same benefits, opportunities, and protection that heterosexual couples have. The consequence of this goal is the recognition of civil unions by two states. Although those state laws are under appeal they could potentially pave the way for other states to follow the same laws. Another goal is to fight for the adoption laws to apply equally to same-sex couples as they do to heterosexuals. Currently, three states prohibit unmarried and same-sex couples from adopting and Florida allows unmarried couples to adopt but still prohibits gays/lesbians from doing so. Another goal is to create recognition of same-sex marriages and eliminate the discrimination of it. Besides certain states making civil unions legal, the consequence of getting these marriages recognized and eliminating bias was the enactment of hate crime laws. This includes sexual identity, race, and sexuality but still not all states include ones sexual orientation as part of the law. Therefore, if a violent crime occurred onto a homosexual the suspect would not be convicted under the hate crime laws. Some of those states that do not include sexual orientation in this law are Mass chutes and New Jersey and that surprised me because those two states are the most advanced on moving towards legalization of same-sex marriages!
4). Proponents of same-sex marriage are usually liberals that argue that we are suppose to have equal rights for everyone in the country and that is not happening. They also argue that making same-sex marriages illegal is politically discriminating towards lesbian, gays, bisexuals, and transsexuals. Having same-sex marriages legalized will symbolizes openness in our society and makes it possible to have more protection laws against discrimination in the workplace and in society.
5). Opponents tend to be conservatives who hold residual views. The government falls into this category their position being against same-sex marriages is based on the traditional American family structure. They believe the nuclear family will lose their values and be destroyed if same-sex marriages were aloud. In the past, they have said homosexuals were a “security risk” to society and Bush has been quoted saying that same-sex marriages would ruin the institution of family (Broffman & Henry, 2004).
6). Policy’s have unintended goals and consequences. Some of the unintended consequences for the right of same-sex marriage are violence, riots, and a divide of our countries people. It was not intended for people to be discriminated against in fact it was the opposite attempt to stop discrimination. Another unintended consequence is the tension in the military today. If you are gay and in the military you are to utilize the “don’t ask, don’t Tell, don’t, don’t pursue, don’t ask” advice so you are not targeted (The Human Rights Campaign [HRC], 2007). Most groups that are affected by this are minority groups including gays, blacks, and disabled bodies. These groups are the ones fighting for social change and policy reform and therefore are more times than not on the receiving end of the consequences that stem from these issues. Although this paper is on same-sex marriages and therefore affected gay/lesbian couple the most, it becomes an added barrio if you also fit into other minority groups for example, if your gay and black you have more difficulties to overcome. There have been many efforts to ban same-sex marriages and many efforts to legalize them. Only time can tell what is in the future for homosexual couples.

Shame this isn't much of a pot-stirring topic and thread!!! :lol:

If I may use a well known phrase "Can't we all get along?", I think this world would be better off...

As a fiscally conservative, socially open minded, pick-up driving, dog loving, workaholic, recovering alcoholic (among other things), country boy living in the burbs, man living not so a traditional way of life (in some eyes)---- I think there are many other things to be concerned with than if Missy down the street is in love with Margaret across the street...

I tell people who start judging "So, who made you God?"

This is an interesting post....coffeebean

Sat, 01/12/2008 - 05:39 Permalink

I agree with you sun on this one, this should be a personal choice, I think of it in terms of adoption also, this is one more family that could adopt a child and give it a loving and caring home. I think a lot of our people are homophobic and are scared that they will catch it and become gay or lesbian.

Really I think it is really "none of our business", if two people of the same sex get married, they should share the benefit of marriage like a male/female couple. You should be able to put your same sex spouse on your medical benefits at work and all the other perks that the traditional married couple can enjoy.

Relax America, it is not catchy!

Sat, 01/12/2008 - 08:35 Permalink

Does it REALLY matter what sexual-preference you want to be? Everyone has a choice...this is why this country is called the United States of America...the " land of the free." Of course, everyone has their personal opionion on this subject. Just telling ya what mine is.

Sat, 01/12/2008 - 10:16 Permalink

This is a hot topic though, it has been a mess for states, people have been married and then forced through annullments, people have went to these other states to marry because it is legal there and then return home to find out that their marriage is not legally recognized.

I think that state representatives that have voted to allow same sex marriages in their states are probably not real popular when they get out of their state area. Homophobia is a wide spread problem, it maybe right up there with racism. Crazy but true.

Did you ever really ask yourself why these people feel the way they do. Most people are raised in a traditional family environment, they are raised that mom and dad are male and female, usually there are two to three kids and these days, both mom and dad go to work.
The only ones that even get to see the other side are the ones that either found themselves in a situation for adoption or untraditional family units, children don't really care who raises them as long as they are loved and cared for.

As adults we can choose to be open minded or not, we can chose to accept or not. It is totally up to us, but it is our tradition to pass our beliefs on to our children. So we must take the chance to get educated and keep up modern society, these stone age ways of thinking just keeps us in the dark.

Sat, 01/12/2008 - 14:04 Permalink

coffeebean this is a hot topic but i can tell you did your reserch on this although people will do what they feel they need to do i dont judge anyone on thier preferance. i know there is a lot of incest which is worse than bisexual and child porn those are the people id like to see punished. the world is in turrmoil and only god can judge any of us. keep up the good articles. they are educational.

Sat, 01/12/2008 - 17:52 Permalink

This is to sdchargers..........I just wanted to say that yes our country is the land of the free however, the point of this article is that is not the case. If people feel we are a country of equal opportunity then they are naive because we are in fact the oppisite in the case of homesexuality. Equal rights should be for everybody. Thank you for your posts.

Sun, 01/13/2008 - 01:34 Permalink

I couldnt agree with you more coffeebean....

Equal Rights should be for everyone... AND, that isnt the case here in the USA...

In fact, we as a people, not just those of us with nontraditional relationships, are losing more of our rights each and everyday.. Many either don't realize it or are sticking their head in the sand hoping it isnt so. The problem is, it is so.

If any one that has been through an arbitration with a collection agency will understand.

Another example is the tax system... When I was married to my exwife, I received a better tax rate than when I was single. Today, as unmarried male, I am back to the not so go tax rates. Thank God I have the interest of my mortgage to right off..

Anyway, I better get off my soap box... Dang nab it coffeebean, dun got me stirred up on a Saturday night!!!

Keep the posts coming... good stuff.

Peace at you all,

Sun, 01/13/2008 - 05:14 Permalink

Well, I have to say ,it is a personal choice to me. When you ask laws to change though, you are asking for a lot of people to get in on your personal choices,approve or disprove. I am not the judge everyone has to pay for thier own sins.My advice would be to read your bible for guidance and make your own decision based on your beliefs.

Sun, 01/13/2008 - 17:11 Permalink

Looks like you have agreement here coffeebean, this is a very controversial subject. The old politicians can not see past their noses on this one, they pull out the good book and preach by it and don't follow half of it themselves.

I just amazes me sometimes, I don't think that homosexual marriages will be the down fall of this nation. There is a heck of a lot more going on that threatens that right now.

There are a lot of arenas that being homosexual in is almost deadly. Some people see this as almost a disease, it is pathetic to hear how some people talk about race and homosexuality these days, I always say, "Open the mouth and dumb stuff falls out".

Fortunately, we live in a country where we can speak what we want to and feel the way we want to, Unfortunately, these rights only apply when it does not make someone else uncomfortable. I feel your pain coffeebean.

Sun, 01/13/2008 - 21:02 Permalink

coffee bean your getting a lot of good feedback on this article i neither agree or disagree with everyone . im told in church it is wrong but so is smokeing lusting after someone elses wife or husband, swearing and on and on,but they dont turn their noses up to those people they try to convince them of their ways. i think god will judge when time is no more so let everyone live as they feel is right for them it will be between them and god if its wrong. there are so many thoughts on these kind of issues maybe because people just dont know what they think and dont know how to respond.

Mon, 01/14/2008 - 00:20 Permalink

I don't think the issue should be to agree with a lifestyle or not. However, I feel that this discussion (I am referring to in this country as a whole, not just in this thread/forum) be focused on the issue of true freedom. If one party or segment of people in this country are refused to be allowed the same benefits of another party, then the word "freedom," in its true sense, is not being praticed.

Once all parties are allowed to participate in the same manner, then we can say we have freedom. And, when I say "we" I am referring to everyone....

Mon, 01/14/2008 - 02:17 Permalink

Sexual orientation is ones personal choice. We individually or as a community have got nothing to do with it. As far as freedom is considered it is restricted for all of us but yes, homosexuality still exists as a taboo and people look down upon them, ridicule them keeping in mind that I am talking about the base level and not celebrities. It is very difficult to survive without the basic necessities of life. I am not ashamed to say that love (physical or mental) is definitely a basic necessity of human life. So be it a straight or a same sex relation or whatever one must have the right to the basic needs of life. By taking away this freedom of choice it is only depriving us from life. We as human beings can coexist. Is anything harming us?

Mon, 01/14/2008 - 05:24 Permalink
Anonymous (not verified)

Recommended reading: The Prince, by Nicolo Machiavelli

Mon, 01/14/2008 - 13:33 Permalink

I just amazes me sometimes, I don't think that homosexual marriages will be the down fall of this nation. There is a heck of a lot more going on that threatens that right now.

Neither will abortion* or illegal immigration**. I believe that many politicians do not really care one way, or another, about many "issues" A position is staked out that assures them of votes. It may be more accurate to say that politicians are largely happy with the status quo...if they tell the people what they want to hear, they are more likely to remain in office. Fear mongering is a surefire way to stir up support (and opposition, which usually has safely gerrymandered seats, as well).

*The "woman's right to choose" lies in privacy protections afforded by a combination of constitutional amendment clauses, and legal reasoning that proceeded Roe v. Wade...for SCOTUS to overturn Roe v. Wade would undoubtedly lead to further erosion of personal privacy protections from the government.

**Democrat, Republican; it doesn't matter in these issues. The U.S. is about capitalism. I think the best example of a politician playing his constituents is the Congressman who didn't vote for the recent immigration reform bill, "because it didn't go far enough." His statement is a tractor trailer load of horse dung. Why? Two reasons:
a) It is easier to make smaller adjustments in statutes, than it is larger adjustments (as in, tighten up restrictions later, when it is politically feasible)
b) With a Democratic Congress, a Republican President, and a good possibility of a future Democratic Congress and President; the odds of passing such legislation is non existent

Mon, 01/14/2008 - 13:48 Permalink

Although we may be the "Land of the free", we are a nation founded upon Judeo-Christian values. Under those values homosexuality is condemned. Personally although I may not agree with it, I've grown out of the full fledged homophobia. However I still believe that same-sex couples should not be permitted to get married. Civil unions, yes... they are Americans and as such deserve the rights our government gives all other couples.

However, a marriage is defined as between a man and a woman and is a religious matrimony; how can one be joined together under the eyes of the same god that condems their relationship?

Mon, 01/14/2008 - 16:56 Permalink

I agree that it is a personal choice.But, when they try to change others views and laws that have been in place it changes everything. I know it says in the bible ,I read it myself) That man shall not lie with man. So I am inclined to believe it a sin. But thats my choice ,right? I let people live their own lives as long as it does not interfer with my right to live mine as I see fit.To each his own.

Mon, 01/14/2008 - 17:12 Permalink

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Leviticus 18:22

Just a reference for the bible passage referenced above and for further discussion.

Mon, 01/14/2008 - 17:21 Permalink

I think it should be a personal choice what a person wants to do, to each his own. If you don't like, keep your nose out of it.

Mon, 01/14/2008 - 22:27 Permalink

Personal choice, but I don't think it will ever be truly accepted the way that people want it to be. Just not enough support for it.

Tue, 01/15/2008 - 01:03 Permalink

i think this was a real good article because it brought out a lot of views and yes everyone who added to it is right thats what rights are about freedom of speech is one of them so do your own thing and dont critisize the next person you never know where youll end up before you die or someone in your family good luck and freedom to all in every choice.

Tue, 01/15/2008 - 01:27 Permalink

I was in the military for 13 years, we had a few people in our unit that we thought were homosexual, and I have to say that these people were not treated fairly. You always heard stuff behind their backs. The military was no place to come right out and say that you were homosexual, it put the fear of god in anyone around you, like it was catchy or something. I have heard many horror stories of how people are treated. They actually had a policy put in place called “Don’t ask, Don’t tell” It has been over 10 years since I have been out, I don’t know what the military stance is on homosexuality now but I can’t imagine it changing much.

Tue, 01/15/2008 - 03:44 Permalink

I completely accept what everyone is saying. Just the way everyone is presenting his or her opinion here, similarly everyone has the right to lead life the way we want. What is democracy for after all? Matter of choice thats it.

Give me a count of a complete "no sinner" (if you can define sin exactly i.e.) in this society today. I would agree to all that you say.

Tue, 01/15/2008 - 07:08 Permalink
rhyroindy (not verified)

Make peace, not war!

Tue, 01/15/2008 - 08:35 Permalink


Thu, 01/17/2008 - 00:19 Permalink

I think, ( as some of you are saying), this is a " persoanl choice." I've heard so many people say that Homosexuailty is not 'normal'. Good grief. What IS 'normal', in this world..ya know? I think people ( government, etc.) are scared to be 'open-minded', in fear they wouldn't be popular. Should we be 'popular' or fair?

Thu, 01/17/2008 - 10:46 Permalink

Very good point here Wendy. But sadly enough most of us choose popularity to being fair. That is the way of the world.

Fri, 01/18/2008 - 04:21 Permalink

What IS 'normal', in this world..ya know?

Normal, is what those in power declare it to be. It requires a change in either the views of those whom hold power, or a shifting of the power to new people with new views.

Fri, 01/18/2008 - 13:25 Permalink

It is not the people in power, it is the majority of people who believe in things and make it the harsh realities of life.

Sat, 01/19/2008 - 05:19 Permalink

People in power have to fear not being popular, look at how famous Bill Clinton got after his little stint with Monica, Any time you say his name what comes to mind, seriously, nothing he did good for the country but what he did with Monica, pops in many americans and foriegners heads also. It is a shame but true. The media gets a hold of things and lets the whole world know these days and that is what is label on a persons forehead. Big Bill was "the man" there for a long time over this. I think it was an embarrassemnt to our country and if he was going to do anything like that he should have been more discreet, did not seem to bother either one of them that the media was all over it.

Now imagine having a president perform that act with someone of their same gender, omg, it would be ten times worse in the media's eyes.

Mon, 01/21/2008 - 11:29 Permalink

A lot of this stuff falls in the same catogory. Any thing that is a personal choice and doesnt bring harm to anyone else should be left up to the indevidual. I think the deal of homosexuals haveing kids isnt any worse than letting kids with abuseive parents,but they claim they dont have the right to interfear with family life. well what do they call homosexualaty. take care of the country and leave personal issues to the indevidual.

Mon, 01/21/2008 - 15:08 Permalink

If Hillary is elected... which I don't think she will..

offensive comment deleted--Morningstar

Wed, 01/23/2008 - 04:39 Permalink

Excuse me? I think you are lost. This is not a forum for ignorant hate-speech.

Wed, 01/23/2008 - 06:14 Permalink

This is atrocious comment. Moderators should remove it.

Wed, 01/23/2008 - 07:16 Permalink

my appoligizes.... should have refrained from that statement...

It wont happen again...


Wed, 01/23/2008 - 12:51 Permalink

I am sure it won't happen again, sometimes we just get so wrapped up in the subject that we can not control our thoughts.

Wed, 01/23/2008 - 19:10 Permalink

your gonna ruffle my dandruff on this. I say let everyone live as they believe it will be between them and god in the end. the government has enough problems of thier own, to work on without sticking thier noses into personal business. look at our world does it look like they are without anything to do. I dont think so.

Wed, 01/23/2008 - 21:08 Permalink

Dont worry sun,

We understand the outrage here. Its offensive so i suggested the delete. Your opinions are always welcome.

Thu, 01/24/2008 - 11:33 Permalink

With all the problems going on in the world today, I would think someones sexual preference would be the least of my concerns, I think as long as someone, hetero or homosexual as long as you are respectful to those around you and don't bother anyone with your beliefs on anyone else, I don't really care what people chose to do. I think to each his own and there is a heck of a lot more to worry about these days.

Tue, 01/29/2008 - 23:28 Permalink

I could not agree more, lets see, we have a war going on, four more troops died this week because of a roadside bomb. We are in an election year, so many decisions, so much going on besides the someone’s choice of sexual preference. Come on, we have so much more to worry about.

Wed, 01/30/2008 - 03:51 Permalink

I was not asking anyone to chose a side but rather think about those in the situation of a samesex spouse, especially at this time of year with taxes rolling around and the perks only going to those who are married with children! Peace

Thu, 01/31/2008 - 04:05 Permalink

She is the most poised character that I have seen till date. I admire her anyway for the strength that she has to survive in this society.

Fri, 02/01/2008 - 09:19 Permalink

I think we should keep government out of our personal business regardless what its about. they have enough to do if they just keep our country safe, leave personal choices to the people it will be between them and god.

Mon, 02/04/2008 - 16:00 Permalink
Nehah (not verified)

Wait, but that means that the bat was manipulating his life so that he would move there, then made him go to the cloest instead of the activity club, and then made Isabel push him in as they ran past, and then finally made him chose it over the other available items in the bin Man these things are scary.

Thu, 04/11/2013 - 19:07 Permalink
Saasdasdasd (not verified)

If you read the archives (and this is one of the more re-readable ccioms), you will see that the bat was trying to draw him into the comic even before Max could fully see spirits.I believe Isabel is in the foreground, so the bat's actions aren't something spectrals can just sense.

Fri, 04/12/2013 - 03:39 Permalink
Zita (not verified)

I think a lot of people hniavg the option of divorce don't really think about it. Basically what i'm saying is that since people know there is an out then they don't really worry about it so much because they can just divorce and that's it. People try and take the easy way out when things get tough and just get a divorce. Marrigaes aren't easy, ask anyone who is in one. If your not the type of person who can work through stuff then you don't belong in a marriage. Think about this stastic . if someone told you you only had a 47% chance of living if they gave you a treatment . Would you go for it or just give up and not bother.

Sun, 04/14/2013 - 16:31 Permalink